Session Start: Sun Oct 01 14:11:56 2000
[14:12] <Walter> You can now ask questions to Johnny Yip.
[14:13] <charliem> great to hear
[14:13] <Barrie> Yes can do that
[14:13] <charliem> great
[14:13] <Barrie> Gday Johnny
[14:14] <johnny> gday
[14:14] <Walter> When you want to ask questions, please
[14:14] <Walter> do it.
[14:15] <Pascal> Thanx Walter :-)) Hello, how long do you take care of discus?
[14:15] <johnny> 7 years Pascal.
[14:15] <charliem> gday Johnny this is Charlie from Melb Australia remember me :-)
[14:15] <johnny> Yes, I remember you.
[14:15] <Barrie> Charlie has shown me your first book Johnny....excellent.
[14:16] <johnny> Thank you, the second is even better.
[14:16] <Pascal> Thank you. Sorry for the formulation. haha
[14:16] <charliem> Johnny I just got back from Penang in augs and notice a lot of new strains, spotted mostly.
[14:17] <johnny> Sure, yeah, mostly spotted and many are crossed with spots.
[14:19] <johnny> We are sharing Johnny with another chat so we must take turns, yes?
Also unexpected, Bing Seto came into the chat together with Johnny Yip.
Bing Seto is sitting on the right side from me.
[14:19] <Bing_Seto> So you can also ask questions to Bing when you want.
[14:20] <Barrie> Bing, how did you find the overall standard of the discus at the show?
[14:21] <Bing_Seto> The standard in my opinion was slighty higher this time.
[14:20] <Pascal> wow a lot of people here for us :-))
[14:21] <johnny> Everyone has worked hard to bring them to you guys.
[14:21] <Pascal> What do you both think about the often heard accusations here in Europe about using too much, too often, antibiotics with discus?
[14:22] <johnny> Because it is common, (it is easily accessible and it is not expensive) - yes, we use it but many people use it, not just Asian breeders.
[14:23] <Bing_Seto> When fish is sick it is good to use medication because it will help them to get a faster recovery.
[14:24] <johnny> Only thing with using antibiotics is you must use it for the specified amount of time, otherwise, the strains of bacteria will become immune to the antibiotic.
[14:24] <Barrie> Johnny and Bing, can you both explain the water conditions that are used for breeding by yourselves.
[14:26] <Bing_Seto> My water condition for my breeders are pH = 6.6 - 6.8 and hardness is about 110 ppm and temp is 80 - 82 degrees Fahrenheit.
[14:27] <johnny> We have different problems than in Western countries but with water coming from my tap they are pretty good, pH is about 7-7.5, and I have no problem breeding or rearing the fry - temp is about 78 dc
[14:28] <johnny> My water source is from the source the governor of Hong Kong uses.
[14:25] <Pascal> How do you make/get these perfect strains with such heavy colors? With inbreeding? If yes, how many generations can you inbreed before problems occur?
[14:27] <Bing_Seto> Yes, I do inbreed, after 5 generations I bring in new blood by crossing with strains from other breeders.
Between the 2 ladies you see Johnny Yip. On the Left from Johnny Stefanie
Heun from Zooplus who did the German translation and on the Right side
from Johnny we see Robin Futrell
[14:29] <Pascal> Does this inbreeding cause some negative effects on percentage of not perfect fishes or not?
[14:30] <Bing_Seto> To much inbreeding will cause growth problems and low rate of fertility.
[14:30] <johnny> Long answer, one sec.
[14:30] <Barrie> sorry.
[14:30] <Barrie> Johnny, how do people go about producing a new strain. How do they know what to cross with what to head in the desired direction?
[14:31] <johnny> Sometimes these strains came about by accident, by that I mean they just cross it with different variety and see what the outcome is by random. Nowadays,
[14:32] <johnny> breeders are getting more sophisticated and they formulate a concept in their head first and then head out and get the necessary type of strains to produce the desired result.
[14:31] <charliem> Johnny, have you seen Ronnie Teoh at the show?
[14:33] <johnny> Yes, I have seen him.
[14:33] <charliem> If you see him again ask him to take some pictures of the show so I can see them when he comes to Melb in few weeks, please.
[14:34] <johnny> Okay, charliem.
[14:34] <charliem> Thanks Johnny.
[14:33] <Davis> Hey All :)
[14:34] <Bing_Seto> Hello Davis
[14:34] <Barrie> Gday Davis
[14:34] <Pascal> hi Davis
[14:34] <charliem> gday Davis
[14:35] <Barrie> But what I don't get, Johnny, is how do you know what the necessary type of strain is??
[14:35] <johnny> But I have a better idea - why don't you buy the new book that coming out about the show.
[14:35] <Davis> Man the wife's gonna kill me with the time I spend on here....hahahaha:)
[14:35] <Pascal> haha Davis discus fever you know, you have to pass it haha
[14:36] <Davis> haha
[14:36] <johnny> For instance, if you want to produce a solid colored fish, use solid colored fish to breed with - not pattern type
[14:36] <charliem> New book of the show was answer for me.
[14:37] <Davis> How is the show today...:)
[14:38] <Walter> Better ask questions Davis to: Johnny Yip and Bing Seto, are in.
[14:38] <johnny> The show is good and you should all be here.
[14:38] <Davis> hahaha I wish
[14:38] <charliem> Next time Johnny just got back from Penang, mate.
[14:38] <Bing_Seto> Where are you from Davis
[14:39] <Davis> Toronto Canada :)
[14:39] <Pascal> We wished to be there, that you can be sure. haha
[14:40] <johnny> Charliem, we came from Asia to be here
[14:40] <johnny> much further than where you're from.
[14:40] <Pascal> But you are professionals, as a student its not so easy :-))
[14:41] <Barrie> Bing do you have a large discus hatchery?
[14:43] <Bing_Seto> I have a small hatchery compared to the hatcheries in South East Asia but in the USA it is moderately sized. In my hatchery I utilize approximately 6000 gallons of water in 274 tanks of several sizes.
[14:41] <Davis> I'm a newbie so newbie questions: do I have to do anything special to acclimatize new fish i.e.: lighting period.
[14:43] <johnny> No, has nothing to do light but more to do with water so whether or not you leave the light on doesn't matter.
[14:43] <Davis> Ty Jonny:)
[14:42] <Pascal> I have quite a difficult question now, how far do you think are humans allowed to change the natural strains of discus or other fishes for our own pleasure?
[14:43] <Davis> Pascal I think it is a personal ethic that would dictate that answer.
[14:43] <johnny> A very philosophical question.
[14:44] <johnny> As long as we do not change or damage the nature of the fish it is fine.
[14:44] <Pascal> haha I am biology student. I know it is difficult, but it interests me what business people think about it :-))
[14:46] <Barrie> What are the main varieties you breed Bing?
[14:47] <Bing_Seto> I breed mainly striated types
[14:46] <johnny> I am not in the business of selling discus, it is my hobby - I am an author.
[14:47] <charliem> Johnny have you ever thought of doing a book of the world breeders?
[14:47] <johnny> That's an interesting idea, maybe one of these days - it would be very expensive because I would have to do much traveling.
[14:47] <Pascal> aha ok, but as a writer you have a big effect on what people think.
[14:47] <Barrie> Do you have to do anything special with your water for the breeders Bing?
[14:51] <Bing_Seto> No, I used tap water but I first run it through carbon filter which will remove the chloramines that are in my water source and also the pH comes out at 8.5 and the same filter will also bring down the pH to neutral (7.0)
[14:49] <Pascal> Bing Seto, do you also have much problems with discus plague as some breeders here in Europe and how do you try to get rid of these infections?
[14:52] <Bing_Seto> No I do not have problems with the Discus Plaque because I do not introduce a lot of foreign Discus into my hatchery.
[14:51] <Barrie> Bing I use mainly RO water for the few pairs I have and I add a mineral additive to bring the conductivity up to about 70 microsiemens. I have a feeling it is too low...what do you think? I also have chloramines in the tap water.
[14:52] <Davis> Bing does it do anything to chlorine? or just chloramine?
[14:54] <Bing_Seto> Davis, the carbon filter will also remove the chlorine.
[14:56] <charliem> Johnny were there any winners from Penang?
[14:57] <johnny> Yes, the big one, the grand champion winner was from Penang and the fish was undisputedly beautiful.
[14:57] <charliem> Can you tell us who it was?
[14:58] <Davis> What type of Fish?
[15:00] <johnny> A fellow by the name of Tung from Penang, Malaysia - "best of show and public's favorite".
[15:01] <johnny> And also it is a Leopard Snakeskin.
[15:02] <charliem> l am wondering if I met this Tung, does he live near the dam in Penang Johnny?
[15:02] <johnny> He lives up in the mountains.
[14:54] <Barrie> Bing, how do you test whether your carbon has taken out all the chloramines. Here where I live they say there isn't a test kit for chloramines.
[14:58] <Bing_Seto> In the beginning I went to a professional water filtration company who measured the chloramine content in my water and I am using the filter that they suggested along with their suggested maintenance of this filter and so far after 3 years I haven't encountered any problems.
[14:55] <Davis> Don't use carbon in my tank will think about using it in holding tank though how long 24hrs as normal to remove?
[14:59] <Bing_Seto> Davis, I also do not keep carbon in my tanks, the water only passes through the carbon one time.
[15:01] <Davis> Nice to here that is enough to get rid of it :)
[14:59] <Barrie> After about how many liters of water would you have to replace the carbon?
[15:01] <Davis> With a home unit (Fluval 403 for now) how long could you use the carbon before replacing?
[15:03] <Bing_Seto> I changed the carbon in the filter, which is a 6.5 cubic feet filter, after 1.2 mil liters
[15:04] <Barrie> Wow, that's some filter Bing!!!!
[15:06] <Bing_Seto> I am not familiar with the Fluval filter and also their are many factors that would determine the interval for you to replace the carbon
[15:06] <Davis> hahahaha:)
[15:03] <charliem> l will ask Ronnie when he comes to Melb if had visited him Johnny.
[15:03] <johnny> Actually, Ronnie knows him quite well.
[15:04] <Davis> Bing and Johnny, what are your current favorites (Discus)?
[15:05] <johnny> Leopard Snakeskin.
[15:06] <johnny> Red spotted green.
[15:06] <johnny> And the all beautiful ones!
[15:07] <Bing_Seto> I do like checkerboards and clean solid type discus.
[15:07] <Pascal> Ok thank you very much Mr. Seto and Yip I have to go, hope to meet you in a year.
[15:07] <Bing_Seto> Bye Pascal
[15:07] <Davis> Bye Pascal:)
[15:07] <johnny> thank you Pascal, goodbye.
[15:07] <Davis> Bing I am getting a print out of my water chem. from the city to help me decide some stuff....just waiting for it to arrive :)
[15:09] <Bing_Seto> Thank you all for joining us in the chatroom goodbye.
[15:09] <johnny> Thank you for joining us.
[15:09] <Davis> Before you try and sell a new strain how many generations do you go through?
[15:12] <johnny> Normally breeders start trying to sell their fish by the second generation.
[15:10] <johnny> Theoretically, at least 4 or 5 generations.
[15:09] <Barrie> The pleasure is all ours. Thanks.
[15:10] <Davis> Bye Bing and Thank you :)
[15:10] <fred> Thank you Bing, Thank you Johnny.
[15:11] <johnny> You're welcome Fred.
[15:11] <Davis> Hello Walter:)
[15:12] <Barrie> Great work tonight Walter ..... so many people to ask questions of.
[15:13] <Barrie> I'm off, time for bed. Bye all. Thanks Walter.
[15:13] <Davis> Bye Barrie I will send email I promise! :)